Women of Internet Marketing Wednesday Part 18

By Li Evans

Tonight I bring you two women only a few people in this industry know.  I wanted to introduce you all to these women because although they aren't in the spotlight like a lot of the other women I've interviewed, both of these women come from very interesting backgrounds.  These two women also have a lot of accomplishments under their belts. I also felt that I wanted to change things up and wanted to give you the audience something a bit unexpected!

One of our women is a total "techie geek" like myself. We can get lost in lines of code for hours and totally enjoy our selves, but have found a great love of SEO since is combines both programming knowledge and marketing. The second women is a whiz in the Affiliate Marketing space, she works wonders with her clients programs turning them into wonderful successes. Tonight, let me introduce you to Julie Joyce and Donna McCarthy

Julie Joyce
There are a few of us in the industry that come from a pure programming background, when I find a person who came from that background, it's like mind meld time. It was that way with Julie. I first met Julie in London, where she and her husband Jay were attending SES (Jay spoke on the Video and Podcast optimization panel).

Julie and her husband own their own SEO Firm called Str0ud SEO Consulting based in North Carolina. Prior to diving head first into SEO, Julie was an object oriented and web development programmer, with Java and ASP being her forte for a number of years. Julie also broadened her arsenal of talents by taking up technical writing and quality assurance testing. 

Currently Julie's focus is split between organic and paid search, for two separate large clients. She's also  very interested in "the way you have to get into your audience's head to know how to properly market--I have started calling it the ethnography of search since it involves studying a culture of a marketing sector and figuring out what will work."

Q:  So Julie, I'm curious since we have similar backgrounds, what brought you into the Search Marketing Industry?
A:  A vacancy on the team at work actually! I had been doing lots of technical writing at the time (I was one of two people in the agency with an English degree so naturally that task fell to me) along with the programming so when a vacancy opened up, they decided to ask me if I'd consider it. I was getting somewhat bored with doing more writing than programming so I agreed to make the switch and I think it's probably the best decision I have ever made, career-wise. I'd been interested in SEO but never really knew exactly what the team DID all day so there was a lot of curiosity. I knew how valuable the team was to the agency so I figured it was something really big that I was being offered, and it was.

Q:  Most successful industry accomplishment?
A:  Being able to start my own SEO company with my husband.

Q:  Why do you like/love this industry?
A:  I love it, without a doubt. I love the fact that there is such an amazing amount of intelligence and talent in this industry. I love the way the people you meet at conferences can talk about something else BESIDES SEO when you meet them and go out to dinner. I am very proud to be surrounded by people that I can constantly learn from.

Q:  For one of your clients you’re a minority (as a woman) do you feel that’s a hindrance or a help?
A:  In general I HOPE it's neither. I would never want to get a gig anywhere simply because I am a woman. However, that being said, I do think it can go either way. I have worked with clients who thought I was a total moron and referred to me as "little lady" and I have been put to work on campaigns because the man in charge was a good old boy who wanted a girl to look at.

Q:  You’ve got a deep programming background, how does this help you with your day to day work?
A:  I think that the whole mindset you get into when you learn how to program changes the way you think about everything. If I encounter a problem with a site, I can either fix it myself or track down the problem and get it fixed without having to ask a billion questions about it.

Q:  Why do you feel that women don’t get into programming?
A:  I am honestly not sure. Almost all of my math classes were filled with women but the computer science classes were not. I don't think that I was ever encouraged to become a programmer but I was certainly never discouraged from it either. At my previous agency, the only two IT managers that I ever worked with were both female and both incredible programmers.

Q:  Doe is “throw people off” when they find out that you were a programmer before a search marketer?
A:  It seems to, a little. I know that people have a certain idea of what a programmer looks like or acts like and I don't think I fit that mold. People do seem somewhat surprised but luckily they don't seem blown away by the fact that I know how to do it. Or either they're just being polite and they're turning to the side and biting their fists in horror.

Q:  What advice would you give for other women starting out in this industry, based on your own experience?
A:  I would advise never, ever automatically assuming you are underpaid or underutilized because you're female. That might be the case, but if you play that card you won't find out will you? You might have to prove your worth more than a man might but you might not, so never assume something is going to be gender-biased.

Q:  What’s a typical day like for you at your company?
A:  It's utterly fantastic. I do the typical email check and then crank up Threadwatch to see what's going on. Then I spend the next 8 hours or so working on everything from project management to updating content to paid ad management. I usually have a good queue of work to do but there's always something getting thrown into the mix, which I love. I can definitely say that I am never bored. Since my husband Jay works about 10 feet away from me. we spend a lot of time discussing what's going on in the industry and trying to come up with new ideas.

Q:  Who’s your favorite blogger to read?
A:  Jim Boykin. I really like that photo of him.

Q:  Paid Links – necessary, overrated, or doesn’t matter?
A:  I think that depends on the site you're working on. For some ultracompetitive sites we work on, if you want to compete you have to buy links. For other sites such as industry leaders that are well established, I would go more with overrated.

Q:  Your opinion of Social Media’s affect on Search Marketing?
A:  What I like the most about it is that it's given us another arena to compete in, which is good since it shakes things up a bit. You can never get too comfortable in SEO. However, I don't think it's critical for use in every industry. It seems like it would be a little more difficult to do well in the long run as well but overall I do enjoy it quite a lot, especially when dealing with Mike Nott who really seems to get into it and knows a lot about it.

Now for the fun part, where I make Julie reveal her completely silly side!

Q:  Evil Green Monkey or Ekky?
A:  This question torments me. It's like asking whether I prefer cheese dip or guacamole. Evil Green Monkey puts up with my "Mrs. Robinson" comments and didn't smack me back when I accidentally clapped him upside the head. He's also the neatest french fry eater that I've yet encountered. I think the Monkey is a serious talent in the industry and could easily take over the world and become my boss so I should pick him. Ekky, however, is quite simply the hippest person in the world. Seriously, he is. Have you seen his hair? Always hip, and the shirts he wears...he also will occasionally throw out a new band for me to listen to so I can pretend to be somewhat hip. For that, I should pick him. He did once abandon me on the dance floor and that was not very nice but as you can see, I have moved on with my life and no longer think of it. Since this is all for fun I will be really shallow and pick Ekky in a 51 to 49 margin since I don't think the Monkey and I would enjoy the same music or compliment each other's Ramones t-shirts.

Q:  You’re stranded on an island and can only pick three SEO’s (men or women) who’d you pick to help you survive on the island?
A:    Obviously I would pick my husband Jay, otherwise known as Str0ud. I need someone to fetch things for me you know. Secondly, I would pick Jon Roy (www.roymedia.co.uk), aka Chaucer, because he and Jay and I could discuss punk rock and classic literature. Jon would also make his amazingly witty comments and find ways to get alcohol out of coconuts. Thirdly, I would pick Anita Chaperon (www.anitachaperon.com once she gets off her lazy butt and gets the site back up), aka PPC Queen. Not only does she laugh at my jokes, she would keep us all on our toes because she's one of those small people who could kick your arse easily. I doubt Jon or Jay would help me start an island disco but Anita would. She'd be good to keep us talking about marketing too so that we would still be sharp when we were rescued and had to go back to work.

Q:  You know the crew at Party Poker really well, what the heck is behind that “Secret SEO” stuff, are the all like triple “0” numbers or something?
A:  It involves lots of really high-tech gadgetry, Masonic rituals, a bit of bloodletting, and bowling shirts. Actually many of the members are not involved with Party Poker. At one point I asked to be let into the group but Jay changed the subject and asked me if I wanted to go shopping for a new handbag. Then, when they were buying the shirts and knew I'd be tagging along in New York, they were willing to let me in IF I wore the female equivalent of the bowling shirt, the dreaded bowling dress. I refused and am still an outsider.

I will say that the group of them really confused a lot of people in New York. I kept expecting music from West Side Story to play when we were walking to dinner. They're much more interesting when they're wearing the Secret SEO shirts and feeling all self-conscious. They drink more too, to dull the pain.

Thanks Julie, I know about their drinking too!  Ecky still owes me a few Mojitos! :)

Now lets learn about our next lady, who's an Affiliate Marketing guru in her own right.

Donna McCarthy
Many of the readers of SMG might not have ever heard of or know Donna, since Donna spends most of her time in the Affiliate Marketing world of the Search Marketing universe. I know Donna, because she likes to beat Affiliate Marketing knowledge into my head at least once a week at Commerce360, where she's our Affiliate Marketing Manager (I hide the bruises really well).

I wanted to take the opportunity to highlight another women from a background I haven't gotten to shine a spotlight on too much here in our series, but hope to going forward.  Affiliate Marketing is a very important channel for a lot of websites out there. Donna is one of the most knowledgeable people I've ever met in this area. I've seen her turn poor programs around to become "rock stars" producing far past the original forecasts, this is all attributed to her deep knowledge of the industry and its trends.

Sometimes affiliate marketers take a lot of slack, but when you find someone like Donna who knows this industry inside and out and can help clients make a bundle of money from their programs you do two things: 1) Become a sponge and learn and 2) Do everything you can to keep them on your team!
 
Q: Donna, can you tell us what brought you into Affiliate Marketing?
A: I was looking for a change from the direct mail side of the business and persuaded a colleague to give me a chance at running the affiliate channel. 

Q: What do you consider to be your most successful industry accomplishment?
A: Full integration of the Bank One and Chase affiliate programs and platforms.

Q: Why do you love about the Affiliate Marketing and Search Marketing industries?
A: The fast pace and new technologies developments

Q: What aggravates you the most about the Affiliate Marketing industry?
A: Lack of understanding by outsiders. 

Q: How has the landscape of this industry changed for women over the years?
A: The affiliate industry is very open to women and provides great career opportunities. 

Q: How does affiliate marketing work with search marketing?   
A:  I believe there should be a very close tie between search and affiliate marketing.  If the campaigns are structure properly, there is huge potential for the client to capitalized on each of the channels strengths. 

Q: Within the Search Marketing industry Affiliates are sort of like the “Red Headed Step Child” do you think that's a fair assessment? 
A: No, i think there is a huge opportunity to syergize the two channels into one successful profitable campaign for the client.

Q: What advice would you give for other women starting out in this industry, based on your own experience?   
A: Read, read, read.  There is so much information out there to learn.  You also have to have a fair amount of marketing knowledge as well as technical knowledge, so make sure to brush up on both.

Q: What's a typical day like for you?   
A: Crazy, but in an organized sort of way!   

Now for a little fun with Donna, and no she doesn't get out of it just cause she sits two rows away from me (*wonders if she should hide all the SMG Hackey Sack balls in the office now*)

Q: Have you Googled yourself (or searched on Yahoo, MSN or ASK for yourself) and have you been surprised by the results?   
  A:  Yes!

Q: Who has the best conference in affiliate marketing?
A: LinkShare 

Q: Craziest/Silliest thing that's ever happened to you?
A: Going to Twisted Sister concert with college hall mates and meeting the band.

Donna did you burn all the incriminating photos of your 80's hair and outfit?  Can I bribe your husband for those? :)

Thank you Julie and Donna for allowing the SMG audience to get to know you!  Stop back next week for edition #19. Until then, read up on our many other women in this industry by checking out the Women of Internet Marketing section here on Search Marketing Gurus.

Comments

[evilgreenmonkey]

I can't believe the little lady chose Ekky over me, especially after all the physical abuse I take from her. Oh well, she's easy on the eyes and makes a good cup of tea. :p

[Lisa Ditlefsen]

Nice interviews Liana! Julie you rock! Can't wait to hang out with you in Seattle. We are going to show these boys how to party lol